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Mari, the Happy Wanderer's avatar

Thank you so much for the shout-out!

I really enjoyed this article and, as always, found your explanations to be clear and convincing. Your example of how entrenched tech companies and social media are is especially interesting right now because of all the meltdowns about Twitter. Everyone is trying to set up an alternative to Twitter, but it’s hard to imagine that a clunky platform like Mastodon will win many adherents. The same thing happens with Facebook. Many years ago, a couple of friends tried to persuade me to go on Google Plus. I said no, for exactly the reasons you cite. Who is on Google Plus now? Anybody at all? And now my aunt is trying to persuade me to join the waiting list for Post. Sorry, but no. I can talk with my aunt whenever I want anyway, and I see no point in starting over from scratch on a new social-media platform that is unlikely to thrive any more than Google Plus did.

Incidentally, even though I am a former English teacher and an editor, I’m not a “whom person” either. I think it’s a relic of the case-system that is rapidly on its way out.

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James's avatar

Excellent follow-up to your review.

This is such a fascinating topic and a fascinating puzzle. Intuitively I am sometimes tempted to think that given the IT revolution since the end of the 60s and the massive expansion of globalisation, growth should have been *way* higher than it has been in the Western world than it has been. To me then, the most compelling thing about the BS jobs idea is that - if this is true - its a compelling suspect.

It seems to me that complexity in a more general sense underlies a lot of what is going on here across many (though not all) the explanations postied. I wonder if in an increasingly complex society it becomes very hard to work out the relationship of work to value (or in other words cost to value generated) for basically everyone (with the problem being worst in large organisations, public or private, whatever Grabers clearly personal political bias is).

I am as frustrated as you by the lack of precision in the Bullshit Job thesis. A box-ticker who makes sure fire regulations are followed in building construction is absolutely not a bullshit job. But a very similar health and safety related job in an area with a weighted profile of risk/harm two orders of magnitude less impactful *might* be on balance not very valuable. But no doubt the person doing that believes they're helping and providing important value - and at what point between the two jobs does it go from a net drain to a net contributor? The HR liability issue seems rooted in this. There are good reasons for having employment laws and those will necessarily create HR liability issues. But they will also increase complexity. Likewise this is a huge problem with all bureaucracy, and especially rules created by governments or departments not directly accountable for value generated (like HR) . Lots of the rules make individual sense or are well meaning: they tend to create problems in aggregate because they impose lots of hidden costs (unlike say, just a single uniform tax) that make it hard to work out the cost side of any endeavour is and perhaps contribute to a general blindness that the weight of the costs mean that the value generated by any role actually has to be many factors greater just to outweigh it *and* the statistically poor value decisions other colleagues have probably made.

It's easy - as you say - to reel off anecdotes about obviously pointless stuff where people feel disengaged with their jobs. But that doesn't cover the experience of most people in the places I've worked. I bet most of the problem is not there: it’s in just a lot of work which are in activities that just don't pay off much in comparison with the total true cost of having someone do them (wages, physical space, training, co-ordination costs etc). Its probably even true of whole organisations. Many startups fail because the value they provided just wasn't quite enough relative to the costs consumed: not because they were laughably pointless (like Juciero!) and generated no value for customers whatsoever.

We'd maybe expect an extreme pareto distribution of which people are companies are overall driving value relative to cost because success at work becomes more like success in entertainment: most people and organizations are spending most of their time fumbling in the dark because cost-to-value signals are so weak! But due to IT, when a company or person "strikes" gold with a new value driver that clearly massively exceeds cost, their reach can suddenly grow very large (much like artists whose particular, song, movie, book whatever happens to strike a chord with the public that was very hard to predict upfront). Whether that *directly* translates into rewards for that business is a separate matter but for the purpose of value it doesn't matter: the sources of value are still extremely pareto distributed. It might just as well be someone who releases groundbreaking software for free as a company like FB that quite simply has made some *very* powerful advertising tech that can genuinely and easily get you more customers way better than other advertising methods.

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